Hair pulling and mounting

[James]

Would hair pulling lead to a fight? Not just holding on to the fur but
jerking the head back while biting the fur. Also not letting go of the
fur when the other is trying to run away.

Although they don't get hurt, it's a bit scary when one jumps away
while pulling the other who got his teeth fast on the fur. I think I
might have read somewhere I shouldn't stop them during mounting unless
they are fighting.

The other thing I worry about is reverse position mounting where the
one head is very close to the vent area of the other.

[Martha]

Dear James,
I haven't been reading posts here regularly, and it sounds as if you
have adopted a friend for Butterball?
to answer your question - yes, hair pulling can lead to a fight if it
is serious (ours will pull a little out while grooming, but it sounds
as if this is different). In the bonding process you want to intervene
before a fight starts (you'll see the tail go up and the ears go back
and then "wham" the fight breaks out). If you can't stop it before it
happens, then stop it immediately. Not only do you not want them to
get hurt, rabbits (I've read) have a long memory and can hold a grudge.
Here are a bunch of articles our adoption group sent to me when we
bonded Biscuit & Roxie. don't know where you are in the process, so
can't be more helpful.
Bonding advice:
http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-8/rabbits-in-the-plural.html
http://www.coloradohrs.com/pairing.asp
http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/introductions.html
http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/bond.shtml
http://www.ontariorabbits.org/behavoiur/behavinfo2.html
http://www.houserabbit.org/BaltWashDC/match.htm
http://www.bunnylu.org/_wsn/page6.html
especially multiples: http://www.mybunnies.com/bonding.htm

good luck from Martha

Post by James
Would hair pulling lead to a fight? Not just holding on to the fur but
jerking the head back while biting the fur. Also not letting go of the
fur when the other is trying to run away.
Although they don't get hurt, it's a bit scary when one jumps away
while pulling the other who got his teeth fast on the fur. I think I
might have read somewhere I shouldn't stop them during mounting unless
they are fighting.
The other thing I worry about is reverse position mounting where the
one head is very close to the vent area of the other.

[James]

They will probably get along OK but I'm just letting one run free at a
time. I watch them like a hawk when both are funning free. Maybe
Puppy just like pulling hair. After lots of mounting they will lay
around a couple feet from each other.

[Martha]

Ignoring each other is actually a good sign in the developing bunny
relationship. If one bun is confined and the other is running free, it
can make the confined bun angry so it is good if they don't see each
other.
When we were bonding Biscuit & Roxie, we would end each session by
bringing them both between my knees and petting them both. It got them
thinking "um, it's nice laying next to this bunny and getting
petted....maybe we should do this again."
Good luck,
Martha

Post by James
They will probably get along OK but I'm just letting one run free at a
time. I watch them like a hawk when both are funning free. Maybe
Puppy just like pulling hair. After lots of mounting they will lay
around a couple feet from each other.

[James]

It's safe enough to let them run free now. Mounting is less intense.
After the first time there was about 2" of intestines hanging out.
Turned out to be just a penis. Yesterday Puppy peed while mounting.
It looked like a lawn sprinkler. Good thing they're outdoor rabbits.

I used to bug Butterball to death because I though he needed to be
touched every couple hours. Now the 2 of them just lay around under
the Juniper all day during the heat. Temperature is a couple degrees
less and the soil surface is about 10 degress cooler. When air
temperature gets under 88F they get pretty active mounting and
chasing.

They will go into each others cages and sometimes into the same cage.
So I guess bonding is going well even though they still have their
family jewels.

[Martha]

I know you are opposed to neutering your bunnies, but from everything
I've read it is highly unlikely that two unnuetered males will ever
bond. If they do, good for you and for them!

Post by James
It's safe enough to let them run free now. Mounting is less intense.
After the first time there was about 2" of intestines hanging out.
Turned out to be just a penis. Yesterday Puppy peed while mounting.
It looked like a lawn sprinkler. Good thing they're outdoor rabbits.
I used to bug Butterball to death because I though he needed to be
touched every couple hours. Now the 2 of them just lay around under
the Juniper all day during the heat. Temperature is a couple degrees
less and the soil surface is about 10 degress cooler. When air
temperature gets under 88F they get pretty active mounting and
chasing.
They will go into each others cages and sometimes into the same cage.
So I guess bonding is going well even though they still have their
family jewels.

[James]

Maybe I'm just lucky but they seem to get along pretty well. They are
almost together all the time. Maybe the heat stress helped bonding.
One of your recommended articles mentioned stress in bonding. They'll
eat together out of the same bowl but I haven't seen any mutual
grooming yet.

[Martha]

I think you are lucky so good for you and them. Car rides are
stressful and we had to take ours in the car to our weekend place and
we found they nuzzled and cuddled the whole trip. I do think it
helped.
OTOH stress is bad for bunnies so many avoid these situations as much
as possible.

Why don't you bring them both between your legs and pet them both at
the same time? Do long pets from ears to rump. Pet all ears together.
After a while stop and see if one starts grooming the other.
Hopefully it will be reciprocated or if not, the non groomer will be OK
with it. Biscuit grooms much more than he gets groomed, but he's pretty
much resigned to it and just hops off after sticking his head under
Roxie's head several times.
Good luck,
Martha

Post by James
Maybe I'm just lucky but they seem to get along pretty well. They are
almost together all the time. Maybe the heat stress helped bonding.
One of your recommended articles mentioned stress in bonding. They'll
eat together out of the same bowl but I haven't seen any mutual
grooming yet.